Avant je me méfiais des prix, car j’avais l’impression qu’ils signifiaient : "Vous êtes désormais bonne pour la maison de retraite." J’avais surtout peur que l’avis des autres ne me détourne de ma route. mais à Cannes, c’était différent car non seulement ce prix n’avait rien à voir avec la musique mais c’était une reconnaissance. La consécration de trois longues années de travail et de sacrifices. (...) J’ai été très touchée de recevoir ce prix. Depuis trois ans, j’avais tout mis de côté pour Selma. Dans la musique, j’accueille les récompenses avec suspicion. J’ai l’impression qu’on veut me placer dans un rocking-chair alors que je commence tout juste ma mission. J’ai envie d’aller si loin ! Surtout ne me dites jamais que ce que je fais est bien...
I’m not the slightest excited about the acting. I love music so much that it feels as if I’m unfaithful to it. It feels a bit dirty. I’m cheating on the love of my life. You know, I refused at first.
I can’t snap into a character one day. For me, the process was a lot more organic, a very slow process. One of the first things Lars taught me was I should not ’act,’ because he can’t stand actors. On that I think we would agree.
The angle I took on it was that it wasn’t really acting. It was more like an extension of my songs ; it was an act of protecting my songs. Then when we started preparing for the acting I told [von Trier] from the top that I would have to feel it from instinct. And he said ’That suits me fine because I can’t stand actresses and acting.
Acting I found was very strange because I would wake up and it would not be an escape into the world of music and the world of dreams. It would be more logic and more confrontation with human beings and more conversation. And this is not my strong side. It is definitely my weak side.
I have already forgotten the one thousand or eleven hundred something days (in the development of the film, including four months of shooting).
Today I forget all of them. It’s good, no ? It’s a very good magic potion you have here in Cannes. I am very happy. It seems that my journey is complete. There is a big, big pink French ribbon on this year, thank you very much.
Ah, it was enjoyable. I’d rather be in the studio. It’s just a question of what you’re born to do. Acting, for me, is like a muslim pretending he’s a Catholic or something. It just doesn’t work. I’m getting a lot of outrageous offers, but... I was always so sure that I’d do music. It’s my love. I think I should leave acting to other people. I think there’s something not very solid about dabbling in something that you haven’t given your heart to.
Clearly you found the experience of doing Dancer in the Dark difficult and you said you would never act again, but do you feel a sense of achievement for it ? Do you look back at it with pride ?
There’s a misunderstanding that I don’t want to act because of that movie, but I never really wanted to. I made an exception because of the director [Lars von Trier]. So afterwards it wasn’t that that experience was so horrible that I didn’t do it again it was more like "Oh yes l’m back to music !" I still haven’t been able to watch that movie, but then again I don’t listen to my own albums because you just move on. But I know in my heart of hearts, that emotionally, I went there. I decided to give it my all and I did. So in that sense... I’m not proud of myself in terms of the conflicts that happened because I find violence really vulgar, I can’t handle it. I don’t like confrontation, I find it horrible but there was this thing where I had to stand up because every cell in me was shouting ’Justice !" I’m the daughter of a union leader and so the times when I rose up wasn’t necessarily me defending myself so much as defending human rights. It’s like watching someone being gang raped and then [saying] "Oh, it’s so cool !" You have to do something about it, because it’s just not right.
I think everyone, occationally wants to become an actor. In the movie you’re working on a dialogue, which is something you try to avoid as a musician. Most people probably don’t know how introvert most musicians really are.
Just look at when you’re recording an album, for example. You are totally isolated. You’re spending hours and hours thinking about which idea to use. During that period, the studio technician may be the only person you’ll meet for months. When the album is finished you’re supposed to do lots of live-performances. I still get extremely nervous before every concert, until I hear the first notes of the first song, then I can relax all about it.
The only way I could become Selma was just to leave all of me behind and slowly become her. so I sort of was her for a year or two, I guess. and I decided not to bother so much about the similarities between me and her because you could look at it in a way that that was something I didn’t have to worry about then because I was already okay. like, I know what it’s like to be a single mom. I know what it’s like to have a son, you know. I know a lot of things, you know.
It took me 1 1/2 years to slowly become Selma. During the shooting of it, my friends would come and not recognize me, and it would get scary. It took me nine months after the shoot to become me again.
This role is in a way designed for me, but you have to ask Lars yourself, but I think the reason why I got the role is because he sees something in me that is in the role. I haven’t dared to ask.
There was certainly something very worrying about Bjork’s performance as the martyr, Selma. As von Trier said, she was not acting, but feeling. The shoot ended up in open warfare between director and star.
Lars became cruel and manipulative and that was unnecessary because we had something really, really gorgeous that had taken off and taken its own life. All we had to do was protect it and make sure no one disturbed it. I think he got scared and he got quite cruel in the last month, and that was what I did not agree with.
Did he shout and scream ?
I do not think you have to scream to be cruel. I think you can watch that film and you can see. If you had never heard the rumours about what happened on set and just saw the film, I think it is very obvious that I was suffering.
As far as the story goes, Bjork believes there was a way to redeem Selma’s suffering, by raising her sacrifice to a beatific level. It should have seemed, by the end, that the world could no longer hurt her. And this, at least, would have made the film truer to the dreamy genre of musical.
Instead everyone walked out of that movie feeling miserable and they felt miserable for one or two days. I don’t think that is necessary. I think if Selma reached that saint-like elevation you would have walked out of that cinema feeling miraculous. She still died but you would have felt ’up’.
It is that tiny little detail where we disagreed. When this plant we planted became too big he began to chop it down. I think it was fear, if you ask me. I think it is some sort of minority complex. You are an artist and you should believe in your work and let it stand for what it is. You don’t need to put extra pain and suffering in there just so that the critics will say, ’This is art.’
I think it is rubbish.
...
It is important to me to defend myself that I am collaborative. My father is a union leader. He fights for the lowest paid. I am very anti-authority. I am anti-control and I think people should work together. When I get into projects I roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty. I have been doing it for 20 years. I am very collaborative in my work. I celebrate creative, idiosyncratic people, and I go out of my way to work with them. But if they offend my sense of justice then I will speak. I will not shut my mouth up. I do not think it is necessary to abuse people, to manipulate people to get art. I think it is a myth. I don’t think to be a good director you have to be cruel.
When I did Juniper Tree, my child was two months old, and I was breastfeeding him between takes. The whole thing felt like a dream. I don’t think I was conscious of what was happening.
So that’s why I never counted that, really. It’s important for me that I give "all of me" to things I do. Which I certainly did with "Dancer In the Dark."
There were periods in this film when I felt like I was having an affair from music, that I felt dirty... because music has always been the place that sorts me out.
I should be doing music, and I should spend all my time on music. Doing this film felt like I was having an affair. It just comes down to basics, and I would die, literally die for the right tune. But I would not die for a film. It’s just how much you care. I think we’ve all got our mission, and that’s just my mission : music.
Playing the part was the most difficult thing I’ve ever done in my whole life. It was a great relief when I received the award afterwards. But I have to point that the acting is in my head - whereas the music is in my heart.
This film was just an adventure for me - a very interesting adventure, though. I don’t think I’ve ever been as happy as when I received the price in Cannes. When I make music, I’ve got a certain instinct, which tells me if it’s good or bad.
It doesn’t matter if I get bad reviews, because I’m always ten times harder to myself. That’s why I’m not very affected by critics, because I don’t care what other people think. But during the filming I didn’t really know if my acting was good or bad, so I gladly accepted all the flattering talk from the movie-business.
Well, the media always simplifies things and they take one incident that happens for five minutes in one year and then that’s your life for the next ten years. But I had all these other moments you know, and the other 364 days in the year were very different from that particular day. I mean, there is still a grain of truth there, but it’s just taken a bit out of proportion.
The fact that I feel more comfortable inside a song than I do in real life. And there’s a great deal of escape from reality and dreamy in both me and Selma. I only feel safe and calm when I make music or sing. I understand the abstract in music but people scare me. Especially their unexpectency. And that is also true for my own way of being unpredictable.
We had different ideas about who Selma really was. I wanted her to be more of an artistic character but Lars, who is a complete fanatic, wants his role figures to suffer, especially the female ones. I couldn’t really accept that.
Selma has had a hard life and she is very imaginative due to all the times she has escaped from her problems into a fanatasy world. Her despair gives you an emotional kick, she makes you high !
But Lars thought that was impossible. All the time he just wanted more and more dreadful things to happen to her and in the end she is even being executed. I thought that was a bit too simple, a bit too easy.
But I don’t think the whole film is based only on conflicts, it’s a compromise between our different views. It’s a combination between reality and fantasy just like a musical.
I really wanted to do the music for it, and Lars convinced me to act in it as well. I sing quite a lot in the film, and the girl in the film is kind of me in a funny way. At least one side of me. I think maybe the girl thinks she is like Ginger Rogers, but I think maybe she isn’t.
I would say, Listen, this is the only way I can do it, so get off my back. I actually went deeper in many cases than he wanted me to.
So I think I knew from the outset how hard it was going to be, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t get upset about how fucking painful it was at times. I did. But then again, I dealt with it.
The big crying scene at the end wasn’t the most painful for me. It was actually a release of pressure.
Winning, she says, with a fiendish little grin, was a "Massive bonus, like England had won the World Cup in football and I was the one who scored all the goals."
That film burned up everything I had achieved. All my confidence. I had to start all over again. You could say that was a good thing but I personally think it felt a bit early. Ten years later I would have been up for that crash maybe.
The reason I don’t want to act is not because of this film, that it was difficult or something like that. I felt like that before the film. I made an exception and decided to act once... But I think I should stick to music. I feel pretty loyal to music.
There were periods in this film when I felt like I was having an affair from music, that I felt dirty. Because music has always been the place that sorts me out. Everything can go horribly wrong, but there’s always music.
I never wanted to see Dancer In The Dark, because for me, it was something that was over and done. It wasn’t that I wasn’t proud of Dancer In The Dark. It was more to do with the fact that it would have been difficult for me to relive those six months in Denmark in any way whatsoever. That was a very strange time.
I couldn’t bare to see myself in the movie, but I told them I didn’t care how I looked. Selma would not have worn any make-up at all. I have no visual vanity, really, about myself. If I should care how I looked then I would be running screaming from the theater when I saw how I came across.
I appreciate all the praise, but I really can’t relate to it. I watch it and go ’yecch.’ It’s emotional to watch the film. I was very emotional when I read the script.
I’d had offers before Dancer in the Dark. It might sound arrogant, but I’m not interested in doing another film. I’m a singer. That is what I do. I am not an actress. I’m not really an actressy person.
I was basically playing two roles. I’d been there filming every day for months, having four nervous breakdowns a day and then I’d collapse and be all bloody and I’d come in in the evening and the crew had chopped up my tunes. They’d took five bars out of something that took me like a month to do and just glued it somewhere and it was like, eeeeeeee !
I was supposed to have the final mix, and they said they couldn’t sign the papers that way. And they couldn’t agree to it. What I was asking for was something to protect my music, it had nothing to do with the film.
At that point I’d gotten to know this woman so well that it didn’t feel like it would be acting for me ; it felt just like loving her or protecting her ... It was sort of an extension of my songs.
I felt strongly about protecting her, because I thought I knew her pretty well. We got a lot of things in common.
I’ve been very lucky. All of my dreams have come true — and more so. And it’s sort of the opposite with her, right ?
But I probably would have reacted like her in the circumstances she was put in. We’re so self-sufficient and so euphoric on our own that we don’t need a lot of the things that the common world has to offer. That for me is a sign of strength.
Juergen Teller : Since the film, you seem to be much more grown-up, deeper, more aware of what’s around you.
Björk : For sure, I’ll be learning from it for years, But I think I was going in this direction anyway. A lot of the songs I recorded in London were written when I was still a child or a teenager. So that was my mentality when I lived there in the early 90s-very youthful. Then when I moved to Spain to do Homogenic, I sort of made a new beginning. I gave myself the chance to catch up with myself, and to kind of be the age I am.
Juergen Teller : And Dancer In The Dark came right after that.
Björk : Yeah. And I do think the film forced me to take a stand on a lot of things, especially when I didn’t agree with Lars. I had to think about all of these big questions in life that I usually feel embarrassed to talk about because they just sound too pretentious. In that sense, I guess the film was healthy for me.
Juergen Teller : What sort of things did you disagree about ?
Björk : Lars doesn’t consider it his responsibility to make sure people are psychologically stable after he’s worked with them in such an intense way. As far as he’s concerned, they can be ruined emotionally, but that’s just not his responsibility.
Juergen Teller : Right. Hmm.
Björk : Also, I wasn’t comfortable with the way he worked with his group. My father was a union leader, and very working class, so I definitely didn’t agree with the kind of hierarchy that I witnessed in Denmark. Lars has a team of people he’s worked with since he was a teenager, and so do I. Of course, I left my team behind to do the film, so when I came back, it was as if I had a big mirror to see how I was communicating.
You go out there and people stare at you and there’s the pressures of that kind of thing, which I don’t like. But you take it on because you know that in a few minutes or hours, you’re going to be surrounded by all the things you love, microphones and equipment. Because I can stay in studios for days and weeks and make music with all my favorite people.
I’ve always wanted to do a musical since I was a kid. I’ve talked about it for years and years and years. Except I would like not for the music to just come out of the walls. I ould like it to be very down-to-earth and modern.
When Lars came to me with the script, I was like ...this is so close to what I want to do ! I always knew that if I were ever to do music to film, I would do nothing else and have a very intimate relationship with the director and it would be organic and every song would come from the bottom of my toes.
All the working relationships I’ve had have always been positive. I’ve worked with people it’s supposed to have been impossible to work with, and it’s always gone really well. It was kind of funny : it was the first time I’ve dealt with something negative happening. But I think maybe the media took some of the negative things that happened and made them a bit bigger than they were. I don’t know. I don’t think about it so much any more. I’m a bit bored with it now. Whatever.
I guess I have an obsession to want to finish things properly. And not leave them until they’re perfect. I guess there’s no such thing as perfect, but the side of me that believes in fantasy definitely believes there is.
Lars, the director, convinced me that the only way to completely complete the music, was if the person who wrote the songs would also be the main character in the film. He convinced me that it was an extension of my songs.
The offer came at the exact right time. I’ve been writing about my own feelings now in three albums and I feel good to write about Selma instead. If we all should be honest, there’s more to the world than just Björk ! (laughs embarrassed)
Surprising, don’t you think ?
I knew when I was a kid that I wanted to do one film, and it would be a musical. So, this was the one. A lot of people think that because of this film, I don’t want to act again because it was so painful, and that is not the case.
I don’t want to sound ungrateful, but my mission in life is music - and I’m firm with it. That’s how I felt before the film. Doing the music and the whole thing felt creative, and that’s why I made an exception. These people who do music and are amazing actors, I don’t agree with that. I’m stubborn and loyal, and music has saved my life 9,000 times.
Because I spent three years working on the film, and I put everything else aside - my own projects, friends, family, all the things I love, and went to Denmark. It was very pleasant to recieve this award.*LOL*
I’m not exactly sure of it’s content, but I know for sure what it meant to me personally. For me, it was a happy ending to three very difficult but very rewarding years.
